Ep. 232: The Urgent Care Hiring Crisis Nobody Wants to Talk About - Interview with Matthew Sherriff from SHS Recruitment Partners

PCMP (00:00.76)
Hey, what's going on everybody? You're listening to another episode of Walk-Ins Welcome with Nick and Michael, always brought to you by Patient Care Marketing Pros. We're fired up for that. We're going to be having a good conversation today. We got me, Michael, Matt. We're to be talking about staffing. And the reason we want to do it is to help you get more patients, deliver better care, get repeat visits, scale your clinics. Part of scale is always going to be a staffing thing. And so I'm glad to have Matt with us today. Michael, what's up buddy?

What's happening? Yeah, the stabbing thing is interesting because like we care about the marketing side of getting patients in your door. But if you don't have staff to support it, it's kind of a mess. so in the recruiting side, it's an evolving, it's evolving, right? Like things have changed over the years. It's not like it used to be. And it's just the whole industry is shifting, just the medical in general. because of that, we have Matt Sherriff with us today.

He's the owner and president of SHS recruitment partners. It's all about recruiting. He's helped place over 600 plus providers and clinical staff across 300 plus urgent care locations. He's active in the UCA workforce initiatives. He knows what he's doing. The company's been around since 1983, which is super cool because that means it has seen everything in this industry from the very beginning to now. Matt, I'm so glad to have you on. welcome to the podcast. Say hello to the Walk-Ins Welcome family and tell us one thing about you that nobody knows.

Matthew Sherriff (01:17.764)
I appreciate it. I appreciate you all having me. So something that no one knows. I landed in the recruiting world, but I actually majored in meteorology. So I got a completely different start. I'm from Kansas originally, so I loved meteorology and majored in it. And to this day, I've still never seen a tornado. So that's kind of a disappointment.

PCMP (01:27.64)
That's awesome.

PCMP (01:37.278)
That is a well Lord. So if you're in meteorology, we have a famous meteorologist here in Alabama. We're here in Birmingham, Alabama, and our famous meteorologist is James Spann. You ever heard of James Spann? Yeah, it is very state specific, but he is a celebrity. He is a celebrity. He travels all over the state. We make a joke. If the suspenders are out, we're in trouble because he put if he has to you have to look it up later. If you see his red suspenders.

Matthew Sherriff (01:48.953)
I haven't

You

Matthew Sherriff (01:59.855)
You

PCMP (02:05.74)
That means we're, there's a tornado in the area and we, and then we've learned the phrase respect the polygon. There you go. Well, I'll tell you, Matt, in my, in my side hustle, my, my fun time when I'm out doing, doing things in the plane, which the podcast, most audience knows at this point I fly. I am too, a little miniature meteorologist. I had to learn so much about weather going through training. man.

Matthew Sherriff (02:08.518)
Trouble is coming. Yeah.

PCMP (02:34.348)
weather systems, high pressure, low pressure, all that kind of stuff. So that's a badge of honor, man. That's cool. Yeah. Well, you said you, but you, study meteorology, but you were literally delivered into this world. Tell us a little bit about how you, how you came to be in staffing in the first place.

Matthew Sherriff (02:39.93)
Yeah.

Matthew Sherriff (02:51.46)
Yeah, that's right. Well, so my mom actually started the company back in 1983.

as one of the very first healthcare recruiting firm, healthcare specific recruiting firms in the country. They just didn't really exist back then. So, of course back then there was no email and text messaging and no internet. all their work then was getting on the phone and cold calling, trying to catch physicians between doctor's appointments and placing very expensive ads in the back of medical journals. And so it was just kind of a different world, but eventually evolved into the internet.

age and made some adjustments there and kind of recruiting world is different now than it was then. But a little over 10 years ago I decided I wasn't the right industry for me previously and wanted to also explore business ownership and so actually just joined my parents for some time to learn the ropes of business ownership. Didn't actually have any idea that I was going to

become an owner of a recruiting firm. wasn't what I wanted to do, but got into it and I really enjoyed the sales challenge of it because it's very much a sales oriented kind of a position. And it turns out I'm kind of good at that. So that's how I made my way here. I pushed my mom out the door about five years ago after ready for her to retire and bought the company from her and just been going strong since then.

PCMP (04:18.264)
I love it. So let's, let's dig into the actual thing that you do, which is staffing agencies specifically for the healthcare industry. But let's do a little myth buster here for just a second. What's something that urgent care operators they think is a recruiting problem, but it's not actually a problem.

Matthew Sherriff (04:34.908)
I would that would certainly be that there's not personnel out there. There are definitely people out there It's a matter of how you're approaching it It's a matter of what resources you're using and if you're Reactive or proactive and building a bench ahead of time if you're reactive then when you don't have a candidate Day two you're thinking there's nobody out there right, but that's just not the case. It's and it's It's there's the candidates are out there. It's just a matter of finding them. So that's that's probably the biggest myth I would I would say as far as

recruiting is concerned.

PCMP (05:06.882)
Well, so myths typically come from somewhere, right? Yeah, yeah. So and I hear because you said they're out there for sure. Now, what about the x-ray techs? I've been told there's a shortage in x-ray techs. actually have a, I'll say a joke, but a lot of our urgent cares, they will have front desk say, we may or may not have an x-ray tech today. So I don't know if I can give you an x-ray or not. And I've heard that like we have

clients all over the country. And like, I've heard that in multiple parts of the country. So is that true? Is the X-ray tech true?

Matthew Sherriff (05:37.02)
100%.

Yeah. And why would a patient ever come back if they thought that they couldn't be taken care of every time they go in there, right? So, I mean, talk about a way to kill your business really quickly. So, it's so critical that these positions are filled at all times. And when you're generating $4,000 to $7,000 a day in revenue, but you're losing patients, know, multiply that patient time so many times they would go to an urgent care center every year, right? So, you're really going to be losing out on potential long-term income. But they are definitely a struggle right now.

It's a big struggle. When I went to UCA, we recruit physicians and advanced practice providers, x-ray techs, MAs, basically anything into a permanent role that is clinic or patient-facing. by far, heard the most, XRTs. That was the x-ray techs. just by far the hardest.

I don't think I've ever talked to an operator though that did not have some kind of a need to fill a position. So I think that also speaks to where the industry is at in terms of prioritizing how important that staff is to keeping your business running like a well-oiled machine.

If you look at Google reviews for some of those operators that have the best scores out there, they're consistently staffed. They're not being shut down because of shortages or because they don't have staff to cover it. They have friendly people there. They're fully staffed at all times, and anybody can go in and be taken care of, right? So I think that that's such a critical part of the overall operation of an urgent care system.

PCMP (07:12.462)
So I can imagine that a x-ray technician is a different process than a physician or a provider versus a front desk versus a nurse practitioner, whatever you call it. How do you attract all these various different roles so that you can place them?

Matthew Sherriff (07:34.085)
Well, so they're all different and every different discipline you speak with, they will speak back to you differently. So you really have to adjust your style of recruiting to go along with that. So one resource may not work where another will. So first and foremost, you have to really understand what resources are available to you to be able to attract talent. But secondary to that,

with x-ray tech specifically, is a shortage. There is a shortage of them. They're out there, but there's a shortage of them. so building relationships with programs, if you're willing to accept new graduates, you know, those are, that's a big deal if you have a program nearby you, so that they funnel their folks over to you because they, for that program, the better placement they have for careers.

the better their statistics look for when they try to bring more folks into the program.

PCMP (08:31.97)
Well, I know Chick-fil-A, have, I'm not going to even call it a system. They have a workplace where young people want to go work there. They desire that. If you were going to ask somebody who was in the market to work at a big box store, if they wanted to work at Costco or Sam's, they want to go to Costco. That's where they would prefer to go. And I'm just thinking of all of these different industries like Apple. It's cool to work at Apple. They don't even pay well.

Matthew Sherriff (09:01.251)
Yeah.

PCMP (09:01.408)
Right. they have. Or it's cool to work at Google. Yeah. They have hundreds of thousands of people that work there. They've created an environment where people want to work there. And so, I mean, you've worked with hundreds of locations, right? What's the great separator in clinics? From a fully staffed clinic to one that struggles to constantly get new people and work there, what's the separator? What's the difference?

Matthew Sherriff (09:14.278)
Mm-hmm.

Matthew Sherriff (09:25.636)
I would say two things, culture number one is critical.

But secondary to that is the look and feel and design of an urgent care center. So if you're in the back of a rundown plaza somewhere and your lights are flickering and you've got the old fluorescent, you know, the doctor's office look from the 80s, you know, I just see brown everywhere. That's all I think of. And whenever you have a setup like that versus one that's newer, nicer, very welcoming for patients, very open, you know, instead of just having walls and doors all over the place, you have an open nurse's station.

Those are the places that, well, that's where you would want to go, right, as a patient. that's where they're going to be more likely to want to go as somebody who spends 40 hours a week in a location.

PCMP (10:10.574)
Well, I even think that's so that's funny because I my mind immediately went to we used to have a client he is now sold to a hospital system. So it's done. But he was a primary care local to us. And it was like a step back in time when you went to his office. And it was so like because I remember going back and it was the classic I've been the primary care doctor here for 45 years. I've hired this new 30 something year old to take over my practice.

Matthew Sherriff (10:33.788)
You

PCMP (10:39.366)
And she's trying to make everything modern. I'm not for it, but she wants it. And of course they ended up selling and that didn't work out for her. But it was, when you would walk in, it was the classic gigantic filing cabinets right there. And they said, yeah, we don't have an EMR. We just have wallpaper, everything. And it was just, it just had like that, that wallpaper, if you can imagine like that special linen wallpaper everywhere with like the flowery.

border wallpaper on the bottom. I don't know, like what you were describing, was like, yeah, those still exist. They do. But it's, but you're right. Cause it's one of those, it's not super attractive to a new graduate or somebody that's in their thirties, like saying, I'm going to walk into this. Cause you're in your mind, saying, this is not really who I am. And I don't, I feel like I'll go backwards a little bit if I do this. And so,

And then they're like, well, maybe I can make a change. then at same time, well, they're not going to change. It's been 40 years. They haven't changed it. Now they're never going to change it. I'd be interested to hear your take on, you know, what is an attractive culture and what is an attractive clinic?

Matthew Sherriff (11:38.05)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah.

Matthew Sherriff (11:46.951)
So in attractive culture, some of the best clients that we've done work with, and they're large operators, several dozen locations, it's a top down. I know it sounds very cliche, but when you have owners or leaders who demonstrate true interest in their employees and they're in the locations asking questions on how things are going, how they can help.

the location operate better, how can they do better in leadership. Those things matter. It's a big deal to someone who's in a, especially in an allied health position to see the CEO or the leadership team of a company. It's kind of like a president. mean, it's like a celebrity to them. Cause I was in those shoes as in my days in retail, know, seeing the owner come in for Sprint Wireless when I was in Kansas City. was like the coolest thing in the world to see Dan Hesse there in a location. was like, yeah, rockstar.

You know, that does so from a culture perspective, it starts at the top down, but also providing them with the the tools and the resources that they need.

X-ray equipment that's not broken, that's working. EMRs that are not so outdated that you're using the old monitors with just green text only that are just coming across. So those are the things that are really critically important from a cultural perspective and also from an operational perspective.

PCMP (12:53.475)
Right.

Matthew Sherriff (13:08.985)
And those, again, those clients that I've worked with that have had the most success with us working with them. They recognize, number one, the importance of being fully staffed at all times. Number two, driving a very positive and rewarding culture for folks that want to be there. That's why I tell candidates all the time, we want people that want to be at work. And if you're not that person, you can tell their voice usually pretty quickly. Then we move on from them.

PCMP (13:39.306)
You ever had a client where he had to say, hey, we could do better work for you if you correct a few of these things.

Matthew Sherriff (13:39.898)
and

Matthew Sherriff (13:48.474)
Yeah, I wish it was that easy and I could just say it just like that too, right?

PCMP (13:51.503)
Welcome to my world. Now granted, I said that to a client and then they fired us a week later. So you know that that's a thing too.

Matthew Sherriff (13:57.905)
Yeah, have to, there's, you know, sometimes there's, there's, folks are set in their ways or owner operators are set in their ways and they think that they're, they know exactly the right way to do things. I don't know that a lot of them are that way, but some of them are.

But by the time someone's working with me, it usually means that they really at a crossroads where they're closing locations or I've got so many openings. I don't know where to begin. Or I have a TA team that is reactive, not interested in doing the best job they possibly can. And so we need to supplement their team. Actually, every client we work with has a talent acquisition team where a supplement to them or an extension to them. I think sometimes we end up lighting a fire because we show it can be done.

And so, but yeah, think the conversations we've had to have with here's what's going right and here's what's going wrong, they typically revolve around first and foremost, the length of time it takes to process a candidate from A to B.

When we make contact with a candidate, we are on the phone with them within 24 hours, performing a full phone intake with them, interview, verifying they meet all the criteria, the qualifications, and then we get them over to our client. And our expectation of them is that they contact the candidate within 24, 48 hours at the most to initiate that process. So whether this is regardless of if it's an MA or...

Matthew Sherriff (15:31.229)
a physician or anything in between. in an ideal situation, if they allow us, we actually like to also schedule that first interview directly for the client. again, sometimes clients, they get their presentation from us about the candidate, and then it just kind of sits in an inbox, right? So we want as much healthy control over the process as we can to keep the process moving.

everybody is being courted by someone else, especially in this industry. So if you don't jump all over them, if you don't make them feel warm and fuzzy and you don't demonstrate that, I'm really interested in you, I think your qualifications are amazing, I wanna make you a part of the team, if you don't do that, you're gonna lose them to the competition. So that's the biggest struggle is getting them to move through the process as quickly as possible. So we have worked with clients that can have an APP.

from the moment we first make contact with them to the moment they have accepted an offer in under seven days. starting, yeah, mean, we, look, if we, if it was our way, we'd have them interviewing the same day that we send them over and making a hiring decision. But we do a lot of work on the front end too, so that for our clients, our goal is that they only need to make a hiring decision. So we, in fact, we reject four out of every five candidates that we,

PCMP (16:32.719)
That's good. That's pretty good.

Matthew Sherriff (16:53.467)
first make contact with about the position. We only send along those that we have all the confidence in the world that they're going to make an offer to. Of those that do receive an offer, more than 75 % of our candidates end up accepting. So...

the opportunity to fill positions pretty quickly when you're working with a company who really understands the industry as we do. And as far as I know, think we'll, I don't know if there's a lot of other firms out there that are so heavily focused on urgent care recruiting specifically like we are, but as long as you're maintaining the focus on that provider and that candidate and you get them through the process quickly, outcomes are amazing and they always will be.

It's got to be a priority. You know, it's one of those things. If you don't make it a priority, you let it just slide because it's a pain, you know, to have to go through the hiring process and credentialing, you're hurting yourself for the future. that's, we try to crack the whip whenever we can to keep it moving because outcomes are always better for them.

PCMP (17:58.831)
That's good. You know, as a agency, we first started as a journalist agency and we would serve anybody. Couple years later, we niched into the urgent care space for many reasons. But we've told that story multiple times on this podcast, but we niched into the urgent care space. And that has caused us to grow exponentially, taking that over to the agency side to the staffing side.

We work with two staffing agencies separately, but they 100 % help digital marketing agencies recruit the right people that we're looking for. Best part of that is, is now I know them and they know me, they know our niche, they know what we're looking for, they know how we operate, they know how we treat our team. know our culture. They know our culture. And the more they've gotten to know us, they're now coming to us going, Hey, I've got somebody that's perfect for your team. And nine times out of 10, they are right. They're perfect for our team.

I didn't have to go do that work. I can focus on delivering excellent service to our clinics and they're delivering excellent people that match our vibe, if you will. So let's take that back over to you, Matt. It's one thing to be a staffing agency. Well, first of all, let's back up just a touch. It's one thing to go and try and recruit yourself, right? Yeah, that's painful. You want to talk about time slot. And then you waste up.

put quotes, you waste all that time when they come on, you're like, well, that was the wrong fit. Matt, there's that piece of it. Then they bring in an agency that will recruit and there's a lot of really good agency, staffing agencies that will just bring whatever company, whatever they need. And then there's you who are niched into the urgent care. We love that by the way, niched into the urgent care space where you're delivering a specific need to a specific niche.

That's all obvious stuff. I've made that connection. But what I'd really like to know is how you make the relationships work between you and the clinics so that you're delivering that level of excellence that they're already expecting from.

Matthew Sherriff (20:02.343)
Sure, well that's key. So the on-site visit that we make when we first meet with a client, it's critical. It's a part of our contract that we have to go on-site. want, and I put that in the contract so that we, you have to see, feel, touch what you're recruiting to, right? So I can't be the expert for my client if I've never been to a location or if I've never met my client face to face. I think.

PCMP (20:15.193)
So good. I love that. actually do love that.

Matthew Sherriff (20:27.875)
in the virtual world we've gotten away from that and that we just assume that because we can see a picture on a screen that is the same as being there in person and that's not the case. So I think being there first and foremost in touring locations that you know I that makes

makes it so our team can have conversations and hey, I was actually at this location and I can tell you firsthand how beautiful it is. And it's got nine patient rooms and they provide their patients a coffee or tea or an espresso. If they want water when they walk in, they greet them at the front door. So these are all things you can see in person, which is absolutely going to better the chances of a candidate selecting you over someone else over the competition. And of course in our space, we just do permanent

recruiting only, don't do like temporal locums type staffing. So, which that in itself, there's plenty of UC operators that are forced into that because they have not been able to find permanent staff or they haven't engaged with someone like us who can help with permanent because that it's so unbelievably expensive to have to go through a temporary or staffing or locums. mean, it's double the cost easily. So, you really get hammered on those. But yeah, I think being on site,

meeting people face to face and again why I say we work as an extension of our clients that's what I mean we we represent ourselves as our as the client we want to have the same success and you know kind of touching in on what you said it's very expensive to turn someone over if you hire the wrong person and they don't work out after a couple months the numbers are staggering for an advanced practice provider the out-of-pocket cost is something like $27,000 by the time you consider what it costs to

PCMP (21:57.272)
Yeah.

Matthew Sherriff (22:11.117)
hire them, onboard them, credential them, all the time your staff puts into that training, and then replacing that person. So you have to go through all that again. So it's a very expensive proposition. And you have to find an expert who knows what they're doing in this space, because it's a very unique space. It's 12 hours a day. It's weekends in most cases. So you're not going to able to attract folks the same way you can in most other settings that are your typical Monday through Friday.

So we've found ways to overcome that. We've built a bench nationally of candidates who want that exact type of scheduling. want to work in urgent care. So we're able to dive into our database right away whenever we pick up a new client and start recruiting for them same day and get candidates over almost immediately in a permanent position, which is not easy to do. It's kind of rare, but we're...

very fortunate to have gotten into this industry in urgent care 10 years ago and have had a lot of time to kind of become experts in this type of recruiting. but yeah, so hopefully that kind of answers your question there.

PCMP (23:15.021)
Yeah, no, that's really, really good. All right. So let's just say for a second, then we'll move over to our lightning round. All right. Let's say for a second that somebody wanted to learn more about you and your company. I don't want you to just send them to a, to like a website address. Help me, help me understand what to expect on that call. That first interaction all the way from picking up the phone or sending you an email or sending you a chat all the way to we're working together. Just walk me through that whole process.

Matthew Sherriff (23:42.887)
Sure, so first I want to know what's your pain point? What is it costing you? What will make your life better tomorrow? know, so that way I know. Yeah, and.

PCMP (23:53.411)
This sounds very familiar to us. Yeah. Literally, what's your pain points? How can we fix those pain points? That's it.

Matthew Sherriff (23:59.933)
Yeah, yeah. And it's also understanding, we don't usually just do APPs or rad techs only. Usually there's multiple needs. So I also ask, what is the most time we need? Are you shutting locations down? So really just understanding from them where their pain points are. And then explain our...

or how we do our work, you know, I don't give away all the secrets because that's what we spent millions of dollars and many years building, but how our process works, how quickly we move and how quickly they need to move when it comes to us sending them over. You know, I've spoken with several clients in the past. All my clients have always been wonderful, but some of them make it sound as if they're going to really prioritize that process. And once we send them over, maybe it doesn't happen as quick as they promised it would. And in a weird way, we kind of take

personal because we're like you know we're putting so much heart and effort into this and we want to see these candidates succeed you know they're very excited about the position and we want to see if everyone's a match and try to get them together as quickly as possible so and then you know usually discuss

a little bit more about what their longer term needs are because you should never just be recruiting for the openings you have now. You should never be reactive. You need to be building a bench. And that's possible. We do that. We've placed candidates sometimes three, four, five years after the first contact with them because we stay in touch. We have a pretty sophisticated system that allows us to be able to follow up as soon as we know that there's an opening within X number of miles of one of our clients. really that initial intake

is just understanding their pain. And then from there we build a strategy that can vary based on their total number of needs. we have...

Matthew Sherriff (25:51.677)
a strategy that most of the clients we work with have a lot of needs, right? Not just one off. So we have a little bit of a different type of solution that we offer that is much more cost effective for them and really makes it a viable option to hire a company like us. And we're small, so we're able to keep our fees down compared to the bigger guys anyhow, just as a result of that. So with that first phone call, think often most of our clients, feel more

comfortable proceeding with a company, whether it's us or someone else. more times than not, I would say if we have them on the phone, we end up doing some work with them, whether now or later because sometimes they say, yeah, I'm going to hold off for now. And then six months later, get that call. Boy, nothing's changed. really need your help now.

PCMP (26:41.815)
Yep. Sometimes that's the way it is. Or like, you still have that candidate from six months ago? Like, no, no, we're really good at placing candidates. So that one's gone. We can help you with another one. that's good. Well, listen, we like to have a little fun with our guests. do a fire around and what we're going to do, Michael and I'll go back and forth. We're going to just litter you with some questions and I don't want to go into depth. Just the first thing that comes to your mind. yes, no answer, whatever. Right.

Matthew Sherriff (26:46.115)
Mm-hmm. Yup.

Matthew Sherriff (26:52.125)
Exactly.

PCMP (27:10.979)
So I'll start Michael, you can go next. So what is the most overrated hiring practice?

Matthew Sherriff (27:16.881)
Hmm

I most overrated hiring practice is going to be any kind of let's say it's not a disingenuous disingenuous disingenuineness on the front end is going to be the most overrated you knew that candidacy right through that it's a hard word to pronounce I went through

PCMP (27:45.047)
a good word. like it. Yeah, disingenuous. got you. Yeah. All right. Biggest red flag when talking to a clinic owner.

Matthew Sherriff (27:54.653)
If they are less interested in finding the right person versus filling a hole

PCMP (28:03.695)
I like that. One interview question every operator should stop asking. Quit asking this question.

Matthew Sherriff (28:09.891)
Why do you love urgent care medicine?

PCMP (28:11.823)
I love that. That's good. makes you different customer service? I love the paycheck in the long weekends. One thing candidates say they want, but they actually don't want it.

Matthew Sherriff (28:15.037)
You

All

Thank

Matthew Sherriff (28:27.215)
It's a benefit. Sometimes they say they want the craziest, most extensive benefits in the world and then they forget they exist.

PCMP (28:33.743)
All right. What's one hard truth about hiring that nobody wants to admit?

Matthew Sherriff (28:42.671)
you need to invest to find the people that are going to return on your investment in them.

PCMP (28:48.847)
Okay, gotcha. And then last question is AI, we talk about all time, is it helping recruiting or is it making it worse?

Matthew Sherriff (28:59.023)
I think that's to be determined. I can expand on that if you want, but I don't see it as effective today.

PCMP (29:02.114)
Okay, that's fair.

PCMP (29:08.941)
Well, expand on it and then we'll take it out.

Matthew Sherriff (29:10.811)
So there are a lot of claims that their AI software will take names from a database that's been, that has not been updated, that has been exported from some company that's collected public data for years and years and years and says, I'm going to find the perfect candidate for you with my AI software. And that's not, first of all, that's not.

PCMP (29:20.683)
Yeah.

Matthew Sherriff (29:33.797)
It's not possible if you don't have updated information on candidates, you're already targeting the wrong candidates, right? Because they move around a lot. But further beyond that, this is a people industry. And if you don't have phone conversations and go with your gut instinct and have had thousands of conversations with candidates to know maybe who's BSing you a little bit versus who is really a strong candidate.

AI can't identify those folks. And AI can't remember, I had an interaction with Jane Smith two years ago in Santa Barbara, and she's the perfect fit now that there's an opening there. It's very difficult to be able to be efficient with AI. Now AI can build great reports and can spit out trends perhaps, but from a hiring perspective, it's not there. It's just not, I mean, we...

Our database has been AI for years because it's had all the information that we could ever need about candidates, dozens of attributes, you know, and we can run a report on that. But at end of the day, AI is not the interviewee, and there are companies out there, by the way, using AI to perform phone interviews as if they're actually humans. And I think that's a whole separate legal issue that I won't get into.

PCMP (30:52.057)
Sure.

Matthew Sherriff (30:52.637)
They are not, they're not human and they're not the ones having that connection with candidates that you have to have to be able to confidently present. I don't want to ever send a candidate to a client that we haven't had a nice long conversation with because I'm putting my name on that candidate and I want to make sure that it's the right fit for them.

PCMP (31:08.623)
Love it. That's good, man. And I think you're accurate. Like AI is, we're deep in AI in our world. to me, AI, I want say attacks our industry the most, but it really does. And there are things where AI is very helpful in some ways and just not helpful in others, but it's evolving. Like the AI that we had three years ago versus today is drastically different. And we're all still trying to figure things out. Well, I think AI aid the recruiting in some

Matthew Sherriff (31:30.897)
Mm-hmm.

PCMP (31:36.303)
capacity, yes, but the human touch still has to happen at some point because you're making a human hire. So, so I totally get that for sure. Well, Matt, I appreciate you coming on. We're going to drop all of your contact information that you've given us in the show notes for people to be able to connect with you. And I just want to encourage you, our listener, if you're struggling with your staffing, getting the right people, one, ask the question, is my culture something that people are attracted to? Okay.

And apparently it's my location. And if you, if your competitor has a crappy location, go hire a clown to stand with like right outside of their location. That looks super creepy with the blinking lights and stuff. Cause that was funny. I'm for this. your, yeah, your competition down the street. They, they already are taking some of your patients, but they have some staff you'd like to have like, send some messages over to staff saying, Hey, check out this location. right. Things are a little better over here.

Matthew Sherriff (32:08.794)
Hahaha!

PCMP (32:36.077)
But Matt, give us some parting words and then we'll say goodbye.

Matthew Sherriff (32:39.047)
Well, I appreciate you all inviting me on. was at UCA, was kind of fascinated to find there wasn't really a huge presence of folks who were there talking about staffing issues and challenges. Every operator has them. So I'm glad I have an opportunity to kind of share some of my knowledge and hope you have me on again someday. And if there's anyone out there who we can help, we'd love to have a conversation and see what we can do for you.

PCMP (33:05.081)
Well, Matt, Matt Sheriff has been with us. Thank you for being on the podcast with us with SHS recruitment partners. And Michael, we'll be back next week. We'll be back next week. See you guys. All we'll see you. Thanks.

Matthew Sherriff (33:15.645)
See you later, thanks.