Ep. 216: Why Forward-Thinking Clinics Are Embracing POCUS - Interview with Dr. Tatiana Havryliuk from Hello Sono

Patient Care Marketing Pros (00:00)
Hey, what's going on everybody? You're listening to another episode of Walk-Ins Welcome powered by Patient Care Marketing Pros. And as always, we want to help you get more patients, deliver better care, get repeat visits and scale your clinics. And we are finally kicking off our interview series. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're back at it. It's 2026. Let's go. That's kind of crazy. already two weeks into 2026. So we are today is actually January 15th. I'm not sure when this will air, but here we are on January 15th, 2026. And we are continuing on with...

We love our interviews. We love bringing on people, especially when they can add value to an urgent care. And we have that today. So today we have Dr. Tatiana Haverluk. I hope I said that right. Anyway, she has been an ER doctor past 15 years with lots of experience with the point of care ultrasound. And because of that, she built her own company called HelloSono, which is all about that start in 2022. So we got a couple of years on that already.

But the goal is to get better, just a better option than the traditional X-ray and urgent cares. We're all about trying to make sure you're more efficient. You can add extra services and help grow your clinic. And this is definitely one of those ways. Tatiana, it's so good to have you on today. Now we have permission to call you Tatiana before we all start flaming me for not being professional. We asked in advance. Tatiana, say hello to the Walk-Ins Welcome family and tell us one thing about you that nobody else knows.

Tatiana Havryliuk (00:55)
Okay.

my goodness. Hello everyone. Thank you so much for having me on here. One thing that most people don't know about me is that I really got into Pickleball the last year or so. If you have met me, I've probably talked about Pickleball, but it's a funny little thing. And I know I've met you guys on the court before and it was really fun.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (01:48)
We did. We got

on a pickleball court. That's right. Yeah. It was so funny because ⁓ I started pickleball back last summer and because of ⁓ my brother-in-law, he he should try this. I was like, okay, I enjoyed it. And I got Nick involved and then we started playing. And then when we get to Saru, cause like, Hey, there's a pickleball ⁓ meetup.

Let's go try this out at 7 a.m. on a Saturday morning. Totally worth it. Yeah. And we're like, and I've never done it. I've never done like a true indoor pickleball setup, which was super cool at a hotel, which is. I played in business socks and business shoes because I had forgotten. Yeah. I don't know if you saw that.

Tatiana Havryliuk (02:22)
That's right.

You can play pickleball in business shoes. I've had someone show up in pajama pants and business shoes at Naruka to play pickleball. That's the education. So if any of you are coming to UCA, yeah, and I'm saying if anyone is coming to UCA, should definitely bring some shoes and paddles to play pickleball.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (02:32)
That's a new goal for me. ⁓ That's it. ⁓ That's somebody who said, I don't give a crap what I'm doing.

Yeah, I love it. And it's and and for before we get off the pickleball thing, if you if you've thought about pickleball, we encourage you because it's not tennis. It's different. It's not racquetball. It's different. And it's just it's more achievable in my mind. But you have fun quicker and not just like get beat up by somebody. So that's also still qualifies as exercise. There you go. Maybe just barely, but it does. Well, hey, listen, I want to talk about so now. Yeah. So let's get into that. Absolutely. All right. So

Tatiana Havryliuk (03:09)
Thank you.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (03:17)
So Tania, we want to, as always, we like to kind of get the background, the story, why is this company even exists? You know, what was the drive for it and how can it help our urgent cares today?

Tatiana Havryliuk (03:29)
Yeah, as you mentioned, my background is in emergency medicine and we've been using point of care ultrasound, POCUS for short, ⁓ for the last 20 years. So throughout my training, I've had ultrasounds throughout my clinical career. And honestly, I cannot imagine delivering care without point of care ultrasound being in my back pocket. really, like I saw an opportunity. Well, the question was why is...

Why are there people outside of the emergency department not using it as much? And initially it was, know, the ultrasound is too expensive. But the big thing was really lack of training. So people didn't feel confident in their skills. And then also lack of that operational readiness of, how do we do it? How do we store images? What devices we use? How do we document all this stuff? How do we bill it? So I basically use the skills that I...

Patient Care Marketing Pros (04:07)
Mm.

Tatiana Havryliuk (04:23)
developed by running an ultrasound program in the emergency department and brought it out to urgent care space and primary care space to help ⁓ these clinics utilize this tool to deliver better and more efficient patient care.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (04:39)
That's so good. I know a lot of clinics know about point of care or ultrasound, but the adoption outside of like an emergency room is almost none or at best it's very, very limited. ⁓ So what are the misconceptions, maybe the barriers that you encounter when you're educating practices and trying to get this into smaller, like I say small, but clinics, urgent cares, primary cares.

Tatiana Havryliuk (05:05)
I mean, think the biggest thing is they don't have a person on site who is fully trained in ultrasound and is comfortable teaching and supporting the staff in developing that skill. I think that's really the biggest reason. and that's kind of what with HelloSono, that's what we are trying to take away. So we do, you know, workshops for hands-on training, which is

just one point in time, but we also do this online support image review to really have the learner be, get really comfortable with ultrasound before they start making the clinical decisions.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (05:44)
That's good. Well, I even think about ⁓ so one of the notes I have was like comparing this to a traditional x-ray because we have lots of clinics that we work with and we know of that they'll say we have on-site x-ray and that's as far as it goes. So how do you ⁓ convince an urgent care, hey, this can be more than just, you know, your x-ray can only do so much, this can do more for you. What kind of conversation comes out that usually?

Tatiana Havryliuk (06:05)
⁓

Great question. mean, first of all, definitely ultrasound and x-ray are not the same thing and they are not interchangeable. Ultrasound does let you do more stuff in terms of diagnosing, example, vascular emergencies, like looking at aorta or maybe looking for a blood clot. You can do an echo if you wanted for

The biggest use cases, I think, for urgent care specifically would be soft tissue ultrasound looking for foreign bodies. lot of times the x-ray, well, actually cannot show you, for example, a wooden splinter while ultrasound can. ⁓ Or a musculoskeletal injuries like tendon tears, joint ⁓ effusions, that ultrasound can do very, very well and better than an x-ray. ⁓ However, there's still that...

gray zone of diagnosing fractures, for example, with ultrasound. It is very much possible and it does have very high sensitivity, but x-ray is still considered the number one choice or the standard currently of doing fracture rollouts. So there's still definitely room for an x-ray. That being said, although I'm talking about fractures right now, how x-ray is the standard, for example, specifically to rip fractures.

ultrasound has a lot higher sensitivity for rib fracture versus an x-ray. There's still even room in that fracture world.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (07:37)
You

Tatiana Havryliuk (07:39)
That's number one. Then the second, well, the third ⁓ application in urgent care ⁓ where ultrasound is better in my opinion, and there is evidence for that as well, is a long ultrasound, so long imaging. If you're looking for pneumonia, pneumothorax,

Patient Care Marketing Pros (07:54)
you

Tatiana Havryliuk (07:59)
⁓ CHF exacerbation, ultrasound has very, very good evidence that it's better than chest x-ray in a lot of those cases. in the clinics that are struggling with maintaining their x-ray tech staffing and actually being available at all hours, ultrasound is such a good option for those clinics.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (08:24)
That's good. One of the things when I was going through and digging into the website, looking through it, there were three things that stood out to me specifically were that you were focused on compliance.

⁓ being excellent and high quality. And then most importantly, which will perk everybody's ears up is making this profitable for them. So how do you balance all of that? How can you stay compliant, deliver excellence and make it financially sustainable for clinics to add this as a product or service?

Tatiana Havryliuk (08:58)
It's a bit of a lift, honestly speaking. You've got to put in, you know, effort time-wise and for the providers that need to learn a new skill. there is an online component of learning, you know, watching videos, doing assessments and quizzes. And then there's the physical skill of actually doing it on patients, initially just for educational purposes, and we review those things. So this is all part of that.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (09:00)
Right.

Tatiana Havryliuk (09:25)
high quality, excellent care, or training that can translate into the excellent care and confidence for the providers. And the compliance piece is really, how are you going to take care of those machines? What are your infection control policies? What protocols exist for your providers to meet the credentialing standards that currently exist, whether they are put out by ASAP or AFP, the ⁓ big medical organizations, there are standards.

So we basically help organizations achieve those standards for their providers and maintain them. And I forgot the third part that you were talking about. You said, profitability. Yes, yes, of course. Yeah, that's, we do have an ROI calculator. You know, I think the point here is that when I speak to the operators that are not academic centers, right, they're like, well, we're not going to spend money on education.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (10:05)
Profitability, money, money, money, money, money, profitability. Yeah. You even have an ROI calculator. So I know it's a thing. Yeah.

Tatiana Havryliuk (10:25)
because it costs us money and we are barely breaking even here. So really the point is to show that POCUS not only pays for itself, but it could be a source of additional revenue for an urgent care, especially if they are in fee for service contracts ⁓ or even if they are in global rates, that's a good way to leverage ultrasound, right? It's a good way to have additional leverage to say that

Patient Care Marketing Pros (10:53)
Right.

Tatiana Havryliuk (10:54)
⁓ Hey, we are doing extra for our patients. We are offering imaging at the bedside and any time of the day that they come in to us ⁓ to prevent those ER visits, to prevent more expensive imaging. And that's why we should be paid at a higher rate, global rate, right? So there are two ways for POCUS to bring revenue to an urgent care, whether you're in a FIFA service or global rate contracts.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (11:21)
So Dr. Tatiana, what I have learned in the years of being in the urgent care space is that around 23 patients per day is a break even point for most clinics. Give or take, right? And as part of our mission of helping people deliver better care, this checks a box, ⁓ and then scale their clinics, what we notice is from 23 to 40 patients per day, when you hit that 40 patients per day mark consistently over a stretch of time,

let's just say six months plus at that point, you're looking to either add another provider, add another location, or what we're talking about here is add another service. all right, I'll set the table for that. What are some signs that a clinic is ready to implement this into their clinic and when is it maybe not a good fit?

Tatiana Havryliuk (12:12)
I would say the clinics that are purely based on high volume rapid assessments in and out, POCUS might not be the best choice, right? If you want to be seeing upper respiratory infections all day long, you know, and doing the swabs, and that's kind of your mainstream focus, ultrasound is going to take some time, right? If you, for example, if you decide to order a chest x-ray out of all these URIs that you are seeing,

Patient Care Marketing Pros (12:21)
Okay.

Tatiana Havryliuk (12:40)
one of those patients, decide to get an x-ray and the x-ray gets done and your provider can keep seeing the patients. But ultrasound, the provider goes and does the ultrasound and interprets, right? So it takes him or her ⁓ probably about five minutes to complete a lung ultrasound once they're trained. So that's the five minutes they could be seeing the next patient. So the next patient, the flip story on this is that if you do want to see

Patient Care Marketing Pros (12:57)
Okay.

Tatiana Havryliuk (13:09)
high complexity patients ⁓ and build your volume that way. And maybe you do get a second provider in, but now you're getting expanded services, more complex patients, then ultrasound is a great choice. Similarly, we talked about x-rays a lot. Those that are really struggling staffing the x-rays, ultrasound is a really great option. ⁓ Another one would be for ⁓ urgent cares that are in a...

Patient Care Marketing Pros (13:22)
You

Tatiana Havryliuk (13:36)
in a more rural locations where the access to imaging and more advanced care is difficult, then offering that ultrasound in the bedside is huge for the patients, right? Whether it's just like, hey, let me take a look and see whether there's a sign of blockage. I'm suspecting there's kidney stone. Let me look at your kidney at the bedside and not send them to a CAT scan or ER that's two hour drive or whatever it is. That's huge.

patient factor, satisfaction factor.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (14:08)
So I'm trying to think of what this is called, because I've heard it a million times and now it's escaping my brain. I believe it's called ⁓ when you're turning things into insurance companies, when you're coding everything, ⁓ hospitals have this value based, like what value you're bringing to the table is how you're paid. Seems to me like there's some proving ground here where if you're keeping somebody from going to the ER for imaging or for, you know, you can do x-ray, but

know, CTs and all that, you're using Sonar, so, so no, sorry, so no, uh, in a way to kind of alleviate sending people over there. You're now proving your value based care at that point. Is that correct?

Tatiana Havryliuk (14:49)
It's totally correct. And actually, I've been contemplating on figuring out like a cost savings calculator to put on our website because there's real like if you prevent, for example, we actually recently did a poll on Facebook and one of the primary care groups and also one of the ED groups about how many patients they are sending to the emergency room or the ER doctors are getting in the emergency room.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (14:56)
Right.

Tatiana Havryliuk (15:16)
to rule out a DVT on say like off hours, 5 p.m. on a Friday. And most of them are sending 86 % of the primary care doctors said they're gonna send that person to the ER. Same thing as the urgent care, right? That's $2,000 per visit versus you could be doing a $100 scan at the bedside. And imagine you missed an ammonia and now you had a chance to catch it early.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (15:29)
Right.

Tatiana Havryliuk (15:42)
by doing long ultrasounds starting the patient on treatment versus now that patient got admitted for pneumonia, $15,000 that could have been saved. And that's also not counting actual like patient's health and patient satisfaction scores and ⁓ time missed from work, et cetera. That's a whole other discussion there.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (15:50)
Yeah. Right.

You know, it's, it's, funny that you talk about that. ⁓ If you listen to this podcast for any length of time, you'll know, like to go into story time with Nick and Michael. So here we go into story time with Nick and Michael earlier this week.

Tatiana Havryliuk (16:14)
⁓ let's do it.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (16:17)
Earlier this week,

my wife, I'm not going to go into the details because she didn't give me permission to, but let's just say that she hurt herself. ⁓ And I called the urgent care first right down the street from my house. called the urgent care first and I'll talk to them and they were nice and all that kind of stuff. But they said, we don't have the tools like this that could help her. And I believe this tool could have helped her. This is actually the perfect tool for what she would need.

Tatiana Havryliuk (16:45)
Mm hmm.

Yeah.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (16:46)
And

instead we wound up going to an ER. Now granted, we went way out of our way to go to a standalone ER that did a really good job. So I'm going to give the ER a little shout out for that. We were only there for three hours instead of 12. So that's a win. Right. but I could, but, but if this was in place at that urgent care, one, it would have been right down the street from my house. It wasn't way faster. Two, it would, would have been in and out with a plan and medication. And then three, I would become a repeat visitor to that clinic because they could solve a problem that I knew we were going to.

Tatiana Havryliuk (17:14)
Is it?

Patient Care Marketing Pros (17:16)
be dealing with at least for a season. Right. So those things right there, I had to go way out of my way. I know it's going to cost more to my insurance company. What little they'll pay anyway, but it's going to cost them. ⁓ It's going to cost me more in whatever my portion is due on that bill. There's so many benefits in my mind to having something like this. If you have the bandwidth to add it, to get the training in place, there's real world application that little old me and my wife could have used on Tuesday. Yeah. Just throwing that out there. Yeah, absolutely. Thoughts?

Tatiana Havryliuk (17:48)
I mean, you're totally right. I am all for it. And I think it's also very smart of you to call ahead because I have had many friends actually, because I'm the ER person, everyone calls me when they're in medical problems. ⁓

Patient Care Marketing Pros (18:01)
Of course, of course they

Tatiana Havryliuk (18:03)
But honestly, I tell them, do not go to the ER at any cost, right? Because usually it is in New York City, at least a seven hour ordeal to go to the ER. But I do actually tell them to call ahead to the urgent care, especially if it's something that requires imaging, because a lot of them actually don't have extra staffing consistently. So, you know, and then I'll do an ultrasound for them, them for a drink to do an ultrasound.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (18:12)
For sure. yeah.

⁓ yeah. Right. Well, honestly, the

ultrasound, way I've now read about it and prepping for this interview, ⁓ you know, I'm like, that would have been actually very helpful. saved me time, money, effort, driving. I could have gotten back to work. All the things that it would have saved me on. And more importantly than any of that, my wife would have felt better faster. So that's what I really care about.

All right. I got a question unless you got one. Are you going? All got all the questions. I know you got them today. So I like to hear all of this is great in theory, but I like to hear real world success stories. So is there a practice, a hospital system, better if it's like an urgent care or a primary clinic where this has transformed the patient care and the workflow after they partnered with HelloSona?

Tatiana Havryliuk (18:58)
Let's go!

⁓

for sure. We have quite a few of those. I have not asked for any permissions beforehand to disclose the names of the clinics. But I'll give you an example. We have a clinic in Massachusetts with multiple locations. And they are actually still in that training phase of training the providers. But it's already changing.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (19:20)
lay them on us. Yeah.

Tatiana Havryliuk (19:42)
patient management for them, just from the soft tissue infection scans. ⁓ They are catching, they are identifying foreign bodies that X-rays haven't identified and actually removing them without further imaging. ⁓ And they are sending all those cases to Holosono. We've had someone actually also urgent care. They were learning still renal and bladder ultrasound and they picked up a bladder mass in a young patient.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (20:09)
Yeah.

Tatiana Havryliuk (20:11)
and they expedited his imaging and CAT scan, et cetera, that they

would have otherwise never have even thought to probably expedite again any imaging on this patient because it was very subtle presentation. So it's definitely making an impact already in the patient experience and the clinical care. ⁓ We are still kind of collecting the data on ROI on a bunch of our locations. ⁓ So I don't have like exact data to share with you.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (20:29)
Right.

No, that's okay. I mean, just the fact that you can specifically say, I've got this person, this person, this person that have integrated this, they're in the training phase, hey, they've executed it and it's working that kind of stuff. That's kind of success stories. I know that our listeners, if they get in contact with you, they're going to want to hear those stories. Like they're going to want to know what's worked in one add-in. well, I was going to say, so I think what I'm hearing on this particular scenario, this is a fantastic way to increase the quality of the care.

Tatiana Havryliuk (20:59)
Yeah.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (21:11)
which ultimately turns in, as we've mentioned, repeat visitors, which is, which honestly, and we've told this to many people, and we've mentioned on this podcast, a repeat visit is a whole lot cheaper to get than a brand new patient. So that repeat patient, while it will cost you upfront to get them in, but give them to come back is cheaper every single time. And this is a great example of where now you're adding a search, you're increasing the quality, you're giving them just better care. The likelihood of them coming back becomes much higher.

which grows your clinic that way. actually have, so you know, you're talking about volume, volume, volume. Yes, there is a, I don't want say it's misconception in urgent care space, but definitely a focus that if it's not upper respiratory, I don't know if I want it. Like we hear that from a lot. I get it. And then we literally had an email from a client, like, Hey, what's the seasonality upper respiratory? And we're like, yeah, that's, that's real.

Tatiana Havryliuk (21:48)
One.

Well, for

Patient Care Marketing Pros (22:07)
It is seasonal, but guess what? All these other things aren't seasonal and they can kind of fill the gaps for you. And this is one of those for sure. But now like, we hear that all,

Tatiana Havryliuk (22:16)
sure.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (22:17)
yeah, we hear it all the time. Like they, what about flu? What about this? What about that? And you say, what about all these other services you could offer and increase your quality, which also increases your Google reviews and all the different things. We have one particular clinic that they even told us, Hey, we like

where we are at around 40 patients per day, we don't want anymore because we want to maintain the quality of care that we can. Cause you talk about the extra five minutes to do this. Like they're a perfect candidate for this because they want to take the extra time to make sure the patient's taken care of. And their reviews reflect that. They have over like three, or 2300 reviews out of Texas, 2300 five star reviews. They're one of our only clinics that has an average of a five out of five on Google. And they say like,

We've been with them since they opened. So it's been almost four years. And they even said when they hit 40, like, hey, y'all just do what you're doing because we don't want any more. we're happy. Don't touch it. We'll keep it right where it needs to be. And then in about a month or so, they're about to open their second location and they have the exact same mindset. We care about the quality, not about the quantity. The quantity will come as the quality is there. ⁓ And so, but I think this is that perfect. Like, cause you talked about the rural side. Rural is real.

We have a handful of rural clinics as well. And sometimes they're the only option for an hour. Like they're the closest thing for up to an hour away. And they're basically acting like an ER, but they're not. And so like this is an ideal situation because, you know, they're really their best option for most people in that part of town. And that makes a huge deal. So like, I think this is really cool because it's not just, like you said, it's not, if you're super high focus on high volume,

this will be a challenge for you. But if you're like, need increased quality of care overall, this is like an easy, I say easy, but an ideal situation in my mind.

Tatiana Havryliuk (24:12)
Exactly. And I think we all need to remember why we are in this field. It's for patient care first. And everything else is kind of

Obviously, nice, like efficiency is good. We want to be efficient while providing really high quality care. But if the motivation is only the ROI, you know, there's definite mismatch. So we gotta make sure that we're taking care of patients first. And what you shared about the clinic with the five-star reviews, that is really, really awesome. Like I think the patients know it and...

Patient Care Marketing Pros (24:47)
Yeah.

Tatiana Havryliuk (24:48)
when

the clinicians care, when the clinics care, administration care, they notice it. And there are actually studies on point of care ultrasound and patient satisfaction. And it's actually described in literature, a Pocus positive care effect. Like patients just love getting ultrasound. But basically, the clinician take an extra time to look at whatever is going on, show them an image of what's going on.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (25:01)
Focus positive care.

Tatiana Havryliuk (25:18)
It's like such a huge boost to the patients, even like confidence in their clinician. There's also research on that in primary care, patients who received POCUS by a primary care, I think it was provider, it wasn't necessarily a doctor, but they reported, 95 % of them reported high quality, perceived high quality of care.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (25:20)
Right.

That's

good.

Tatiana Havryliuk (25:45)
And

65 % of them said they trusted their clinician more because they used ultrasounds.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (25:50)
I mean, it sense. mean, if I'm going into an urgent care and they bring out a machine that's going to identify something right in front of me, I mean, was like, well, that's all I needed to see, right? Because that seeing is believing part of things. know, because when you get labs done, they send it off. And you're like, well, I'll find out in a couple of days. And then, know, there's dissatisfaction that comes with that. That's right. So if you can handle it in-house and not refer it out in front of them.

Tatiana Havryliuk (26:03)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. For sure.

Exactly.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (26:18)
Right. That's going to win, I'd say, 100 percent of the time that's going to be a win. But you have to be able to communicate that. You know, there was a campaign years ago now when the app store on the iPhone first rolled out that was like there's an app for that. Right. So because their whole messaging is like we can solve that problem. We can solve that problem with an app. Right. So last year we ran a campaign here locally for one of our multi-location urgent cares. And it was we can handle that.

we can handle that was the campaign. then what above that saying would be imaging or upper respiratory or sports physicals, or you name the thing and under it was saying, yeah, we can handle that. Cause we were trying to help people understand that you didn't have to go to an ER to get these

Tatiana Havryliuk (26:47)
you you

Patient Care Marketing Pros (27:04)
services. Or your primary care. Yeah. Or your primary care. We can do that. We can handle that. I think there's going to be some messaging that's going to take some time to stick ⁓ even with the Pocus, but

⁓ I think if you're able to get those into medical facilities, it's going to be a win. just because you're increasing quality ⁓ is a huge win because the industry does suffer from a quality standpoint where most perception of an urgent care is mediocre quality, I would say, where I can get this figured out per se in an urgent care, but it's not necessarily like

Tatiana Havryliuk (27:36)
Yeah.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (27:38)
a specialist in their mind. And there was even a comedy bit that we found that was really funny about urgent care. Well, you got 40 bucks. All right, we're going to figure this out together. But it's just really funny because like that's some of the perception that people have. like this will help elevate some of that. like anything, when you're educating the audience and the public, it takes time. Like it's not a quick turn for sure. ⁓ But anyway, so I want people to understand though, ⁓

Tatiana Havryliuk (27:39)
.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (28:05)
Because you talk about how once they learn the skill and they're good at it, it takes about five minutes. What's the typical onboarding from, hey, I've talked to her. We're going to say yes. How long from that standpoint to they're actually performing their first set of ultrasounds without hands-on assistance?

Tatiana Havryliuk (28:24)
You mean ultrasounds that they can actually make clinical decisions on and bill for? Six months to a year, six months to a year. So I would say if they're learning

Patient Care Marketing Pros (28:29)
Yes. What's that timeframe typically? Six months to a year? Okay.

Tatiana Havryliuk (28:36)
starting with just soft tissue, basic musculoskeletal, that is the quickest skill to learn. You know, is there a foreign body or not? Is there an abscess or not? How big is the abscess? Is there like a knee effusion? Those things, you can technically get them in three months' time, get enough volume of scans reviewed that you feel really confident in it. But anything a little bit more complex like lung ultrasound or renal bladder ultrasound,

I typically say take up to a year to complete the full training program. Because the training program, we don't discuss it, but it does have an online curriculum, hands-on workshop, and then that perceptorship period where providers are doing educational scans on volunteers or actual patients, but they're not making clinical decisions. They are still ordering whatever they would normally order.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (29:15)
Thank you.

Tatiana Havryliuk (29:30)
and they are sending those for feedback so that

Patient Care Marketing Pros (29:31)
you

Tatiana Havryliuk (29:32)
we can actually tell them how, while they're doing and improve their skillset.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (29:37)
That's pretty cool. Honestly, that's awesome. It's gonna also good. That's like a true. We're not just selling you a piece of hardware. Yeah, it's like there's more to this, which is really cool. Okay, so just to the audience like this is not a hey, we can have this running next month. This is something that takes a little time and it must have a build out for sure.

Tatiana Havryliuk (29:57)
Yeah, and it needs to be the right time, right? It is a bit of a lift. you can't have, you know, implementing a new EMR and doing POCUS implementation and training. That's probably going to be a bit too much for the also for your clinicians learning a new EMR system and learning POCUS. You know, that might be too much. So you want to time it in a way that makes sense.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (30:12)
Yeah.

Right.

Nice. All right, you got your crystal ball handy.

Tatiana Havryliuk (30:26)
⁓ sure?

Patient Care Marketing Pros (30:27)
Look ahead this year. How is AI going to have an impact on this for you?

Tatiana Havryliuk (30:33)
⁓ my God, it already has so much impact. Well, first of all, such an easy question. First of all, the devices, focus devices, a lot of them are now like souped up with AI. AI can help you. There are different protocols. The AI will actually tell you like, hey, move your probe down a little bit so you can get a better image. It will count if it can detect abnormalities.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (30:42)
She thought that was going be harder.

⁓ That's cool.

Tatiana Havryliuk (31:01)
live during scanning and tell you like, hey, there's this abnormal finding I'm seeing. ⁓ So there are all kinds of ways AI is already helping. The future will probably be that AI is going to be reading some of these images and helping give feedback also even to the learners so they can get more instantaneous feedback. So that's all coming very quickly. And guess what? There's also research on patients.

doing their own scans using AI, and that's been successful. So if the patient can do it on themselves, I'm pretty sure that a urgent care provider can learn how to do it on the patients. just, AI is making the adoption definitely easier, more palatable ⁓ in the urgent care space.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (31:30)
Mm.

I am still fascinated at how AI is being incorporated in every facet of our life. So, ⁓ so I just, it's a common question now. Tell me how it's affecting your business and how it's being incorporated. But here's the cool thing. ⁓ You have a link that we're going to drop in the show notes. Michael can spell it out here in just a minute, but it's kind of like a link tree. And what you can do is ⁓ help me understand the ROI calculator.

And then they can schedule a consultation, maybe a demo with you. What all does this link give access to?

Tatiana Havryliuk (32:22)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so we have a few downloadable resources, including CPT codes with Medicare rates for different POCUS applications. We are currently actually updating them to 2026 rates. So, but 2025 rates, 2026 rates are pretty similar. If you give us another one or two weeks, we'll have that down to 2026. We also have a billing readiness checklist on there. have

Patient Care Marketing Pros (32:43)
Perfect.

Love it.

Tatiana Havryliuk (32:57)
⁓ Ocular ultrasound, we didn't even talk about ocular ultrasound, but all the things you can detect with the ocular ultrasound available for download. And just lots of different resources also on the blog post from clinical applications to operational ⁓ articles on, you know, what's the ROI, what's the point of credentialing. We also have a bunch of ⁓ webinars coming up. ⁓ So yeah, a lot of different things you can check out that link.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (33:26)
I love it. You have an

ROI calculator, downloadable resources for ⁓ doctors and clinicians, and then the ability to schedule a demo or a walkthrough of the product and service as well. So Michael, what's that link? Yeah. Hellosono.com is a slash links. that the- That's what she said. Yeah. Yeah. Slash links. I haven't written that one, just making sure.

Tatiana Havryliuk (33:44)
Yep, slash links.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (33:47)
And we'll have in the show notes below as always. So you guys could just tap and go take a look there. But the best part is you can talk to her. You get to have a chance to meet with her and like just have some real conversation around it. And also if you mentioned pickleball, she'll probably find out a way to see if you time to play. So we always love that too. I figured I bring pickleball in one more time. anyway.

Tatiana Havryliuk (34:08)
Wait, I

have more pickleball information. I forgot. If anyone is coming to Urgent Care Association Convention in Chicago, we are also doing a talk on pickleball injuries and ultrasound applications will be included. And also there's an ultrasound pre-conference workshop. It's a four-hour workshop. So please sign up if you're planning to come to Chicago.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (34:11)
⁓ go lay it on us.

Wait, wait, what is the name?

nice. That's amazing.

Well, plan is definitely to pickleball. so now now I have to know what's the number one injuries related to pickleball so I can avoid the twisted ankle.

Tatiana Havryliuk (34:41)
Take a bow.

Yeah, mostly it's sprained, strains, but in older people, you're not that old yet. We are not. We are not all that old. it would be risk fractures is a big one because people fall backwards. just fractures would be a more serious one. Obviously, more serious ones also could be like head injuries, ocular injuries. But otherwise, it's mostly like sprained, strains, Achilles tendon issues, ACL tears.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (34:52)
That's good enough.

Nice.

Tatiana Havryliuk (35:16)
Arthritis.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (35:19)
Break yourself at pickleball. We can handle that. We can handle that. Dr. Tatiana, we have had a blast talking with you today. We've had equally a blast playing pickleball with you because that's the first time we met you. And then I know I can speak for Michael and saying we will have a blast again in Chicago playing pickleball. Absolutely. So thank you.

Tatiana Havryliuk (35:38)
my God.

Yes. Well, thank you, Nick and Michael. It's been honestly a big pleasure. Thank you so much.

Patient Care Marketing Pros (35:45)
love it. Thank you for being on here. Glad you're with us. And if you're listening and this is ⁓ giving value for you, please consider liking and sharing this episode or send us an email at hellopatientcaremarketers.com and tell us what you like and dislike because we want to hear that too. We don't get enough love in the email. You can ask Hannah. She even says that y'all don't talk to her too often. But thank you guys for listening to this episode and we will catch you on the next one. Thanks again. Talk to you soon.